Book Review -- Lonesome Dove




 

Book:  Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry

My rating:  4.5 out of 5 stars

Book source:  Personal copy

Summary from the publisher:  A love story and an epic of the frontier, Lonesome Dove is the grandest novel ever written about the last, defiant wilderness of America. Richly authentic, beautifully written, Lonesome Dove is a book to make readers laugh, weep, dream and remember.

It’s almost impossible to review a book I’ve spent 9 weeks analyzing, exploring, and dissecting every scene, character and locale.

So, I will keep it brief: I loved it! It took me nearly 300 pages (all of Part 1) to find my grove with this book. The Hat Creek gang spent more hours getting out of Texas than they did at any other location. I lost patience with all of them. Plus, the ongoing talk of “sporting” women (code name for whores) was burdensome and tiring. Without our ongoing read along – I would have easily given up on this book. But once Part II began with the introduction of an entirely new set of characters, the whole novel exploded with energy, humor, drama, and tragedy.

McMurtry’s characters were some of the most memorable I’ve read in a long time. I will go to my grave with a crush on Gus McCrae. In addition to his “human” characters – McMurtry is brilliant in making the horses (Hell Bitch, in particular), pigs and cattle as integral to the story as the cowboys and Indians.

The only reason I didn’t rate this book a 5 star was, not only did I find it arduous in the beginning, but I thought the ending was rushed. The cowboys took nearly 800 pages to make their cross-country trek, but when one of them had to return, it only took 100 pages. A little too expedited and neatly tied up for me.

But it was a grand, wonderful novel, full of amazing dialogue, distinctively written characters, and a scope beyond anything I’ve ever read before.

Up next: The miniseries!! I have it on hold at the library – can’t wait for it to arrive.

Check out the trailer – just the few scenes that are represented seem true to the novel.

Wild West Wednesdays! Lonesome Dove FINAL!

I can't believe it's over!  After 900 pages and innumerable cattle miles, the Hat Creek Gang (or what's left of it) has come to the end of the road -- and so have Leah, Amy and I.

It's been a great trek -- and as much as I loved the book -- it wouldn't have been the same without this discussion thread. 

Here are our final thoughts on Lonesome Dove:

1) When Gus set out with only Pea Eye did you have a sense that something would go wrong? Were you surprised by what happened or the way in which Gus died?

Leah: Well, I am not sure how to answer this one since this was one of the things I remembered from my first read. So yep. I knew Gus would die. However, re-reading I still hoped against hope that somehow it would all come out differently this time and he would survive! I guess, in a way, it does seem sort of a fitting death. He spent his life fighting Indians. It seems like he was always chasing danger so it would have caught him at some point and he did live a long life. I loved that McMurtry let us spend some time with Gus at the end getting to know his last wishes.

Amy: True...you were spoiled. It was a pretty awful death. Ugh, I hate amputations of the limbs in books. but I can seriously understand preferring to die than to have no legs, especially after a life like Gus's.

Melissa: After Deets died, I knew something was going to happen to someone…I was hoping it wouldn’t be Gus. And, yes, I was surprised by the way it happened. But like Leah said, it seemed appropriate that he would die by an Indian’s arrow. I must have been very naïve though, because even as his other leg was turning green and then black, I really thought he was going to pull through. I just couldn’t imagine the book without him. Or him not going back to Nebraska to be with Clara and Lorena. It made me that much more angry with Call.

2) Call seems to be in a deep sort of grief, not only over Gus's death but what he perceives as his own failure. Were you surprised by how down he was? Disappointed he couldn't communicate better with Newt?

Leah: I was surprised by how down Call was. Call has lost his best friend, his life’s companion. He spent the majority of his adult life with Gus by his side and now he is gone. A part of his will never be the same. Clearly the ranch on Montana is a success and he should be proud of that and they knew going into that there would be some deaths but sadly, I think for Call it’s about the get and not about the end result so he’s restless once again. I don’t know if I am disappointed about the way he communicated with Newt. A part of me felt Call is the epitome of the strong, silent type and for him to have suddenly gotten all sappy would have been weird. He gave him Newt all the things that meant the most to him and I think that conveyed all Call could say.

Amy: I agree, but also think that there was some truth that giving Newt his name would have meant more to Newt in every way. But I guess you can't just expect sudden change!

Melissa: I have no sympathy for Call. He deserves every bit of grief he is experiencing and then some. He failed his team, he failed Gus and he failed Newt. He was selfish and unrepentant when he decided to make this journey. And when things started turning sour, he should have had the guts to “cut his losses” and turn back or at least stop and rethink things. As much as he was trying to fulfill his promise to Gus to bury him in “Clara’s Meadow”, I also think he was selfishly trying to ease his conscience. As far as Newt, again, I think it was selfish on his part. I don’t buy the strong silent type…he had honor throughout all of his other actions as a Ranger – the most honorable thing he could have done, without being sappy, was to acknowledge Newt as his son.

3) What did you think of the ending? Do you feel it was a good stopping point for the story of Lonesome Dove?

Leah: How do you wrap up an epic? I liked that it ended in Lonesome Dove. It seemed like it might not but Call going back was fitting. A book by that name should start and end there. That was really their home.

Amy: I agree! Good point.

Melissa: Considering I spent the last 100 pages in tears, yes, the ending worked. But, it’s not without fault: Considering it took them 800 pages to make the journey to Montana, and only 100 pages for Call to return to Texas was a bit expedited. Also, as much as I wanted to know what happened to Blue Duck, the fact that that story line was so “tidy” with Call making his was to New Mexico, and Blue Duck being in prison ready to be hanged – that worked out way too easy. But I loved the fact that Bolivar was at the ranch ringing the bell – and that Wanz burned the saloon. I thought that was perfect.

 

Overall Questions

1) Several threads are left quite open and we can imagine what happens to our beloved characters. Do you think Newt survives alone? What do you think happens to Lorena? July? Clara?

Leah: Well we could always read the “Streets of Loredo” and find out :) but I like to think that yes Newt does survive and thrive as boss of the Montana ranch. Call said he was a boss at Newt’s age so I think that it was fitting for Newt to be so as well. Clara clearly is made of strong stock so she’ll be fine. I think Lorena still needs time to heal but hopefully she’ll find companionship and July, man I don’t know about him. Honestly he needs to get over his puppy love stage!

Amy: I was surprised when I read the synopsis of Streets of Laredo by what happens to some of them. I think that I prefer in a way to just leave the story as is and not read the sequel...imagining that Newt thrives, Call finds a new adventure, Clara raises Martin to healthy adulthood, and Lorena becomes the Clara of Montana. :)

Melissa: I agree with Amy – I have a hard time trying to project futures for these characters. Because whatever happened, I’m sure I would be disappointed. If for no other reason than Gus isn’t involved. I can’t imagine reading a sequel without Gus. But, I didn’t know there was a sequel – so it my get the best of my curiosity. Leah, have you read it?

2) How was the book different than you thought it would be when you first started? Did it live up to your expectations?

Leah: Having this be a re-read for me, personally I thought it was even better the second time. Reading it with you two I was really able to analyze the details and scope of this novel. I absolutely love this book!

Amy: I have to admit it was much better than I expected!

Melissa: Considering I was ready to give up in the early stages, I would have to say that it exceeded expectations. I know that without the both of you and this read along, I would have given up on this book. So, thank you – because once I got over the “hump,” I loved every page.

3) What do you think McMurtry's overarching theme of the book was?

Leah: Personally, this is a toughie but if I was to make a guess it would be to have honored the West. I think a lot of books labeled as Westerns get a bad rap as some sort of cheesy grocery store novels but this was one that went on to win a Pulitzer Prize. He wrote a novel about the West to elevate the genre about a time gone by and characters that that made America what it is today.

Amy: I know it's tough, I needed help! I think it's about the West as well and the quote at the beginning of the book, really captures it nicely.

Melissa: Oh no – an English Lit-type question! All I can really think of is – honor, endurance, perseverance and a little bit of luck.

Any final thoughts you'd like to share?

FINISHED Lonesome Dove!

Our read along final review will be on Wednesday and my own personal review will be posted on Tuesday, but I must admit, I spent the last 100 pages heartbroken and in tears as the Hat Creek gang wrapped up their adventure.  Wow -- what a journey! 

Wild West Wednesdays! Lonesome Dove Chapters 81-90

We are in the home stretch of our Wild West read along.

Emotionally, this was one of the toughest sections to read.  The high points -- the Hat Creek Gang finally arriving in Ogallala, and Gus and Clara reuniting.  The low points -- Deets -- enough said.  I'm not a book "cryer" -- but I shed some tears with this one.

I wrote the questions this week -- I could have been more concise -- but there was so much to talk about -- and I totally forgot about Elmira and Zwey.  Deets was the only thing on my mind.

Leah's, Amy's and my thoughts below:

1. The Hat Creek gang finally arrives in Ogallala – while in town, lots of things happen – Call beats up a Calvary officer, Dixon, over his “acquisition” of Dish’s mare AND the boys finally find themselves “whores” – first, what are your thoughts on Call’s temper? And, what do you think of the boys’ first “experience?”

Leah: The town scene was interesting for many reasons because they had built it up to mythical proportions being out in the middle of nowhere for so long so I figured it would be entertaining. For me, Call’s temper was justifiable in this instance. Dixon was whipping his son. Whether or not Call will ever admit to Newt that he is his boy, he has raised him as such and he is. Call is just a man of few words, as we’ve seen. But clearly, he will protect him from anything and anyone when given the chance. Call didn’t even know what came over him. As for the boys first experience with ‘whores’ it was comical and kind of what I expected. I’m sure they’ll still brag about it though!

Melissa: Leah, thank you for being so smart! When I thought of this question about Call’s altercation, I wasn’t thinking of it in terms of a parent/child relationship – but of course, that explains it. My initial reaction was the persona Call embodies – this brooding, loaner, who hasn’t, for the most part, shown much of what makes him tick. I’ve been so perplexed by him throughout the whole book. So, the violence in this scene just was another twist to who he is and why. As far as the boys – I thought it was hysterical. I laughed out loud when Buf was with Newt… the imagery (as much as it made me uncomfortable) was priceless.

Amy: I thought Call beating up that guy was both a reaction to what he was doing to Newt as well as left over frustration. It was definitely new insight into his personality! I guess I was a bit surprised he flew into such a blind rage, because in every other aspect he has always seemed very controlled. I thought the boys experiences were funny--especially like Leah said after they had made it out to be so grand in their minds.

2. Gus and Clara reunite -- thoughts?

Leah: Those two together are great. I loved reading their interactions. Gus needs someone who can give it to him as good as he puts out and Clara is his match. I don’t blame Clara for being done with marrying though. I thought the whole day was sweet. Personally, I am glad Lorena stayed on. I think it was a good choice.

Melissa: I love them! I want McMurtry to write a Gus/Clara novel! My reaction last week to an imagined Clara/Gus relationship was much of the same as what she had with Bill, but different. Now, I’m not so sure. Their repartee, their enduring friendship – everything makes for a great love story. I too am glad Lorena stayed on – she finally gets to experience normalcy – whatever that is out on the plains.

Amy: I also loved them....they are kind of epic. :) I, too, was glad that Lorena stayed behind and that she made friends with the girls and that maybe she’ll be okay.

3. There is a huge sense of foreboding once the Hat Creek gang leaves Ogallala – many of the men don’t want to go and Po Campo is prophetic when he predicts that water will become scarcer. Then, the unthinkable happens – Deets is killed. Why is Call so stubborn in his quest for Montana? Should they have stayed? How did you feel when Deets died?

Leah: Who knows why Call is so stubborn? Why did anyone have the desire to tame the West? Because they want to be the first; because they want to make the most money; because they want the glory; because they did it in Texas; one last hurrah before they die? I don’t think Call has it in him to stay but everyone is a free agent and could have made their own choices. McMurtry’s writing and tribute to Deet’s passing was beautiful. Call and Gus loved Deets and it could not just be said in a couple of paragraphs. I think McMurtry wrote this beautifully. I feel like anything I say will be trite in comparison.

Melissa: I think one of the key lines in this section is when Gus says (and I’m paraphrasing, because I can’t seem to find it in the book), “I’m going to scatter Jake Spoon’s bones if this doesn’t work out.” This whole trek is based on some notion that Jake Spoon dreamt up back in Lonesome Dove – and it’s finally dawning on them that Jake was a loser, and they shouldn’t have listened to him. But Call is determined (why, I don’t know – see previous answer about what makes him tick) to continue in spite of all the reasons why they shouldn’t. It’s like a man not asking for directions. Then Deets. The truth is, I don’t cry in novels – but I was heaving when this happened. He was one of my favorite characters. And I hold Call responsible. Honestly, after that scene, it has been hard for me to pick it up again because I’m scared of what will happen next.

Amy: Deets death was horrific (as so many of these deaths are) and you’re right Leah, that it was written beautifully. I have no idea why Call is insisting on going and it annoys me to no end. They’ve already lost so many and they have no real idea of what they’re getting into. Yes I know the pioneer life, but most everyone had been quite content to stay in Lonesome Dove. Also, what about Elmira’s offscreen death? I felt bad for Zwey.

Any thoughts about this week's reading?

Wild West Wednesdays! Lonesome Dove Chapters 71-80

We are in the final stretch of Lonesome Dove and I must say, the last half of the book soared for me. I'm glad I persevered and continued reading because I really have enjoyed it!

This week we learned Jake's fate (wow!), met Clara, and July and Elmira finally reunite -- not happily I might add. 

With the Thanksgiving holiday approaching and several days off, I'm almost certain I will finish it this week.  I'm eager to find out what happens to the Hat Creek gang!  I was following a thread on Goodreads and someone mentioned "tears" being shed.  Oh my -- I can't imagine!  I will still follow our reading/posting schedule, but I can't hold back the ending chapters any longer!

Leah wrote the questions for this week -- here are our responses:



1. Jake Spoon has fallen in with the Suggs' brothers, a band of murderers and horse thieves. They leave a trail of misery in their wake. What do you think of the final outcome? Were you surprised by the ending of Jake? Did you think Call and Gus would do it?

Leah: Honestly someone had to stop them. The Suggs' were gruesome. The fact that Jake wasn't man enough to do anything makes him an accomplice and by default, guilty. Dealing with friends that have fallen from grace, I can't even imagine what Gus and Call were feeling towards Jake. I know Gus had no respect for Jake after the way he responded to Lorie's kidnapping. Newt's the one I really feel bad for though. He's young and he idolized Jake. Watching your idols fall is a hard lesson to learn. However, do I feel that Jake got what he deserved? Yep.

Melissa: Holy Cow! Death at the hands of your “friends!” I was shocked – but now that I’ve had a chance to think about it – it makes perfect literary sense. Another brilliantly written scene by McMurtry. And I loved how Jake was the one who kicked the horse that ended his life. Oh, and when Gus mentions Lorena, and Jake responds with, “Who?” I let out an audible GASP! How dare he! I wish they could have hung him twice.

Amy: I was really surprised and didn't expect this at all, but I found it perfect. Life was just so rough! I felt like these scenes illustrated that so well..Dan Suggs was a complete psychopath, as well. Jake's ending was unfortunate but even more unfortunate was the fact that he never seemed to make any really important wise decisions for himself.

2. We learn about Clara's life after Gus. Do you think she is happy with the life she has chosen?

Leah: It's hard to know. Obviously she loves her family and she chose the husband she did for a reason. Nobody can know the full insides of a marriage. However, life on the plains in the 1800s was difficult for women. Research has shown their tendency to go insane is pretty full on because they were alone so often and death of their children was rampant and this was touched on. Claire could have chosen an easier life for herself but she didn't.

Melissa: Happy – I don’t think there is such thing as happy on the plains. There is endurance, hardship, stamina, drudgery – but happy doesn’t seem to exist. But life with Gus wouldn’t have been any better – just different. I can’t imagine surviving her life – burying 3 children, raising two girls, nursing a brain-dead husband, running a business – all without a microwave. She’s got my vote for woman of the year.

Amy: I think Clara is kind of fascinating and I really enjoyed her backstory of life on the plains. What happened to Bob was horrific as well as the loss of her children, but at least she had Cholo! I think it's sad to think of what life was like then for the women and families. Didn't Natalie Merchant write a song about this? :)

3. Elmira leaves her second born son with Clara shortly after giving birth to him, leaves July for a second time, and doesn't even bat an eye when she learns about the death of Joe. How do you feel about Elmira now?

Leah: I'm going to keep this one short - whatever respect or sympathy I may have had for Elmira's situation up until now is gone after these chapters. She left her baby and didn't care about the death of her other son. July shouldn't have come after her, I get that. But she doesn't care about her kids. Peace out Elmira.

Melissa: I’m now done with Elmira too. What a selfish *&^%$. Adios Elmira – hope those Sioux treat you well. But these scenes magnify how bleak July’s journey turned out – he went in search of Jake, who is now hanging from a tree, and lost Roscoe, Joe, Janey, and Elmira (again) in the process. He needs to get it thru his head that “she’s just not that into you.” I wish he’d grow a pair, because I’m beginning to lose sympathy for him as well.

Amy: I don't like her at all. I don't even understand her. I do feel like if July had shown some...other feelings towards her she might have been more interested, but his predictable faithfulness bores her and turns her off. I also couldn't help but feel a bit sorry for Zwey and wish he'd send her off on her own. I think they will meet an unfortunate end.

What are your thoughts on this week's chapters?

Wild West Wednesdays! Lonesome Dove Chapters 61-70

After last week's overwhelming brutality, the Hat Creek gang encountered more horrible weather, another cowboy death and GRASSHOPPERS!  This is becoming more Odyssean with each chapter!  And, I didn't get the grand reunion I was expecting from Gus and Call -- geesh, at least they could have man hugged or something!

Amy was in charge of this week's questions -- here are our thoughts:

1) Lorena is slowly beginning the process of healing, but she doesn't want to see anyone else and has become quite dependent on Gus. What do you think of this development? Will Lorena succeed in getting Gus to forget about the other woman?

Leah: I found this coping mechanism interesting. God knows how a person would get over something like this and I think Gus would be a calming presence for sure. Sometimes its nice to have someone who can talk that you don't have to talk back to and he did rescue her after all so you know he can protect her when push comes to shove. Will she succeed in winning his heart? I honestly don't think it's the right thing for her even if she thinks it is. However much I think Gus loves Lorena and she loves him, I think she should fulfill her dream of going to San Francisco and I don't think Gus is a city boy.

Melissa: At this point, I don’t think Lorena even has a clue about what she wants or what she is doing. I think she is just trying to hang on to whatever sanity she has, and Gus is the only link to reality left. She probably thinks she loves him, but it’s only because she is so completely and utterly dependent on him. There has to be a psychological name to survivors developing “feelings” or dependence on their rescuers. I am just glad that Gus is so descent…any other man (like Jake!) would take advantage of her vulnerability and probably destroy her permanently.

Amy: I agree. I hope Lorena can find some measure of peace and live the life she has left. I have found her sections to be so sad...I can't even imagine trying to go on after something like that. I hope for good things for Lorena!

2) Jake seems to be the kind of person things just happen to and he seems unable to take responsibility for his own actions. How do you feel about his traveling companions? Do you think he'll be able to get away from them?

Leah: It's hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that Jake isn't a kid. He used to be a Ranger with Call and Gus so he is older. I'm guessing in his 40s maybe. He is old enough to get his sh*t together and stop blaming everyone else and quit chasing tail. I know he's a good foil for the rest of the cowboys but crimeny sakes he's hard for me to take in any dose and I hope he gets what he deserves. Those men are trouble and Jake knows it.

Melissa: I am so done with Jake! I’m with Leah, he acts like he is Newt’s age, when he must be a grown man!? How could he possibly take off with those thugs? I was crushed when their group demolished the farming couple’s sod house…that made me so sad!! And he did NOTHING! Grrrrr…..I do hope he gets what is coming to him, but I not at the expense of anyone in the Hat Creek Gang…in fact, I think Jake needs to run into Blue Duck!

Amy: I agree! Jake is annoying and seems to make bad decision after bad decision. I thought the whole part about Sally was rather shocking and he shot someone and didn't mean to? Really? (he probably did do that girl a favor, though!)

3) Poor July is barely hanging on...what did you think of Jennie? Do you think he'll be able to find Ellie?

Leah: I liked it when July ran into Jennie. I thought it was interesting to learn more about Ellie. I also think Jennie was a lot nicer than Ellie. July, however, needs to stop falling in love with every woman (whore) he meets! I do think he'll find Ellie but I don't think he'll get out of it want he wants.

Melissa: July at least now has perspective on Ellie and her history. I wish he would just turn around and go home. Honestly, I have no idea how these “sporting” women do it – literally!! This is a G rated read along, but there is a discussion somewhere on the physical extremes of this lifestyle. I can’t and don’t even want to try to understand it.

Amy: I will be very curious to see how the reunion goes. I feel bad for Ellie as well, her situation is kind of miserable, too! Melissa, I totally know. It's completely incomprehensible to me.

What are your thoughts after this week's chapters?

Wild West Wednesdays! Lonesome Dove Chapters 51-60

We completed this week one of the most gruesome, brutal sequences I've read in literature. 

Here are my thoughts: 

The shocking nature of Lorena's beatings, the camp's conditions, Blue Duck's and his men's behavior, totally rattled me.  I was so completely immersed, that when I finished reading and walked outside, I was surprised that I was not in the outcroppings of Indian Territory (they kept referring to the fact that they were North of the Red River, so I am assuming that is where they were).  It took me awhile to shake the feeling -- even to the point I didn't want my kids to play outside for fear that evil was lurking. 

I wrote the questions for this week's discussion -- here are Amy's, Leah's and my thoughts below:

1. Lorena’s situation is hell. How does she endure the suffering? (Or anyone who is put in a position of utter brutality). What are your overall feelings and thoughts about her, Blue Duck, Dog Face, Monkey John and the whole camp scene? Where does such evil come from?

Amy: I also wondered how Lorena survives such suffering. Her situation is the equivalent, I think, of a modern sex slave without the drugs to help her get through. I felt tremendous sympathy for her. This section also really helped me feel what it was like out there..the unpredictable nature of it, what there was to fear. I felt HORRIBLE for Dog Face as well, what an awful terrible way to die simply for trying to bring a little ease into Lorena's situation. I couldn't stop thinking about this all day after I read it.

Leah: This section was incredibly powerful and disturbing to read. I just kept thinking what kind of people can do this to other human beings? I can only guess that it's people who feel at a complete loss of control maybe? Blue Duck and the Kiowas have essentially lost their people, their way of life, culture and their livelihood. They've essentially lost all sense of humanity because it's been taken away from them. Dog Face and Monkey John are white men living with them, I am still unsure why, and while Dog Face seems to be the only one with some sense of humanity I think Monkey John is one of those weak mean who wants to show that he is just as powerful as the other men he is around by being the most brutal with Lorena. As for Lorena, if she wasn't a lost soul before, my God how would you ever recover from something like that? Gus was saying that most women never really did. I can imagine that yes, it would make you completely untrusting, totally paranoid and well, not really want to go on anymore. And yet she has survived so it will be interesting to see what's to come for her.

Melissa: I don’t think I’ve ever read a single passage in literature as cruel or inhumane as this. I was stunned. I’m glad Lorena chose to become mute – her only form of defiance and the only thing she could control. I guess that was her survivability tool. You usually read in survivor stories that the victim has HOPE and that’s what helps them survive…but at that point, I couldn’t even tell if she had any HOPE that Gus would find her? During this scene, I started to think of them as real people – because my first thought, and I know this sounds crazy, was, “what would their mothers think?!” or, “Where did they learn such vile behavior?!” I wanted to do some kind of psychoanalysis on them…but I’m sure Blue Duck saw his family destroyed by white men in similar fashion. Evil breeds evil. It still gives me shivers.

2. The two story lines finally collide when Call meets up with July and his gang – did you have any premonition it would end the way it did? Do you think July is reluctant to set out on his own to find Elmira?

Amy: I was so so so sad it ended the way it did, but I suspected Roscoe might not survive. I was also just really sad Janey didn't survive. She was such a fighter and interesting character. I feel badly for July setting out on his own, knowing what happened to his group, his people. I think the quick way they died after spending chapters letting us get to know them was very effective.

Leah: Oh poor July. He can't seem to catch a break can he. He was finally connected with the rest of his group and then had Gus to help him out and bam, everyone is gone in an instant. Elmira's left him, his friend's are dead. For his sake, I kind of hope he starts fresh in a new town and doesn't keep chasing Elmira but I doubt it.

Melissa: I almost feel guilty for treating this gang of misfits so sarcastically in my previous posts! I loved Roscoe’s bumbling and anticipated his antics throughout the remainder of the book. I SO did not see this coming. I was crushed when they all died – and I really wanted to get to know Janey! In fact, after Gus shows up with July to tend to the bodies and relates how he found them, I had to go back and re-read the previous scene, just to wrap my brain around what happened. If I were July, after being a witness to the carnage, there is NO way I would go anywhere by myself. I’d be much like Lorena and stick to Gus like glue. So many what ifs: If July had stayed home, if Roscoe had stayed and tried being “married”, if Joe had signed on to work for Wilbarger…also, as an afterthought, I do think July would have gotten killed had he stayed behind in the camp.

3. Call is obviously distraught that Gus hasn’t returned, do these emotions surprise you? Do they seem out of character for Call? Do you think he is more worried now that Po Campo has shed light on how bad Blue Duck is?

Amy: I think Call and Gus have a special relationship, the kind forged between two people when they live a lot of life together and see a lot of things. Sure they get on each other's nerves, but they have a kind of deep respect for one another. So it didn't seem out of character to me, Call seems like a man who doesn't really know his own feelings. I do think it would be hard not to be worried after hearing more bad things about Blue Duck!

Leah: I agree with you Amy! I also think Call probably is more of a man's man and maybe he is used to Gus always being around to do the talking for him. They are, for lack of a better term, best friends. Should he have gone with Gus? Probably not because it would have left all of the younger men and cattle in dire straits but should he have let Gus go alone, who is to say. They aren't as young as they used to be and Call already feels guilt for things left undone and unsaid in his past. I don't think he thought this was 'goodbye' when Gus left.

Melissa: I think my original commentary on Gus and Call was to call them an “old married couple” – and I think this really is testament to that statement. I think “old married couples” tend to take for granted their relationship and assume that their partner is always going to be there for them – and when Gus doesn’t return in a timely manner, Call finally has a rude awakening. I really love their dynamic. I also think, and I have no direct basis for this, but I assume that military comrades have much the same relationship – where they are totally dependent on one another, but without being outwardly emotional. I would have thought less of Call if he hadn’t reacted this way. And when Po Campo started telling horror stories – it would have scared the beejeezies out of me and made me worry more! I am assuming, although I haven’t gotten that far, that there is a reunion – I hope I’m not disappointed with their reactions to one another!

If you are reading along...you MUST have thoughts about this section! Please share!

Wild West Wednesdays! Lonesome Dove Chapters 41-50

My thoughts on this week's chapters:

The last two sections that we discussed were high points for me -- but with this section, I'm back to where I started at the beginning, somewhat ambivalent about their whole journey. I'm finding that Jake's insolence is really beginning to nerve me.  Any scene that he decides to show up in, I'm ready to skip ahead.  It's like dealing with a bratty, spoiled, 4 year old -- but worse.  I do love their new cook and I really like Deets, even thought he isn't a major character.  The cattle drive is slow...I just want them to get out of Texas for crying out loud!  Now we have Indians, and in true Hollywood, John Ford-form, they are scalp carrying, women raping, Indians.  Wonder when Gus will ride in on his white horse to rescue Lorena? 

Here are Leah's, Amy's and my thoughts -- Leah was in charge of this week's questions (and if you visit Leah's blog, make sure you give a shout out to the San Francisco Giants for winning the World Series!):

1. We now have the full story of two huge female relationships in our main men's lives: Cal and Maggie; and Gus and Clara. They are very different. What do these relationships tell us about the men they've become, if anything?

Leah: I just found the difference between the way the men treat their 'true loves' very striking. Gus is a hopeless romantic, still pining after Clara years later after she has essentially dumped him for a, at least in her opinion, more sensible man, and moved up North. Gus clearly loves women though and while finding comfort with a couple of wives, the one that got away still haunts him and he truly did try to court her into a relationship. Cal on the other hand was completely different. He basically wanted to 'test the waters' with the whole women thing to see what everyone was talking about. From what I can gather, Maggie was the first and last woman he has ever been with and it has left an indelible mark. While he is a man of few words, he has a son out of it, Newt but he won't even acknowledge that. He must feel bad for how things ended with Maggie, things left unsaid. It was an interesting story.

Amy: I found Call's story so sad! The amount of guilt he carries around with him is rather heartbreaking. I think he liked Maggie, but I wasn't even sure he loved her. But what's interesting is how seriously he takes his failure to properly deal with the situation. 

Gus does love women and you gotta feel for him pining after Clara. :)

Melissa: The more Gus talks to Call about his relationship with Maggie (how he thinks Call should have settled down with her had a family) the more I think he is really trying to project his personal desires onto Call. I think Gus really wanted that with Clara, but it didn’t work out. So, he is trying to impart his dreams onto Call – and unfortunately for Maggie, Call never wanted that. Also, as much as I want to believe that Gus is in “love” with Clara, I think he has created this image of her, because really, what else does he have to do but day dream about her all day long?! As far as Call, I was surprised at how introspective he got about Maggie – do men really have that depth of feeling?! He really did some soul searching out there in the Texas desert.

2. Our old pal Roscoe gets a female traveling companion! Do you think he should have rescued her? Do you think they make a good pair?

Leah: What can I say? Every time we see Roscoe I smile but this story had a dark twist. I really wanted Roscoe to be the hero and jump in and save the woman being beaten by the old man in the house he was sleeping at but he didn't want to get into someone else's domestic dispute. I thought it was weak. I was glad she chased after him anyway and I am excited to see where that goes.

Amy: Roscoe doesn't seem to do much he's not absolutely forced into. I laugh straight through his chapters. Janey didn't need him to do the saving after all, he provided enough of an opportunity for her to save herself. I will be very interested to see where it goes.

Melissa: Honestly, even though I read these chapters fairly quickly and recently, I had already forgotten that Roscoe had picked up a “stray.” I guess I need to re-read that part. But in spite of my brain lapse, I find myself wanting to read more of Roscoe’s story.

3. The cowboys finally meet a Native American while traveling, the famous Blue Duck, who Cal and Gus even know from their Ranger days (and we saw how bad ass Gus and Cal used to be when they Rangered when they wandered into San Antonio for a bit). What do you make of everything that has happened with Blue Duck and Lorena and what do you think will happen when Gus and Blue Duck meet again?

Leah: Talk about some true cowboy and Indian action like the kind old fashion Westerns were about! We have a captured damsel in distress and an old time cowboy hero riding in to save the day from the rogue native, while the scoundrel Jake just sits back and gets drunk and angry. Seriously it's some good action. I predict a shoot out!

Amy: I found what happened horrifying! Poor Lorena! (though I'm sad she couldn't just stay by herself) You're right it feels like the classic Western scene. There better be a shoot-out!

Melissa: See, I told you she should have gone with Xavier! I’m stumped as to why Gus didn’t FORCE her to come to camp with him. He knew exactly the danger she was in. Seemed to go against his character. Her horse back journey was quite terrifying. And when Blue Duck turns her over to his men…wow…even though it was written obliquely, it’s a sickening scene. My only issue with this chapter is it seems so, like you said, “Western.” Is McMurtry feeding/perpetuating a Hollywood cowboy/Indian stereotype? Not sure.

Any thoughts on the reading this week?

Wild West Wednesdays! Lonesome Dove Chapters 31-40

My thoughts on this week's reading:

These chapters were full of truly memorable, if not horrific (and funny!) scenes:  First, Jake and Lorena survive the vicious thunderstorms on the plains.  Having grown up just north of where this book takes place, storms of this nature are terrifying in a house, let alone out in the middle of nowhere without shelter.  I can't imagine trying to endure that and they do it without a tent!  Scary stuff.  Then, the Hat Creek Cattle gang suffers their first death -- and boy was it graphic!  My Dad, in his younger years, was an avid fisherman, and I grew up with stories of his encounters with water moccasins -- they are not to be messed with! He always carried a pistol with him to shoot any that came his way.  I've been terrified of them ever since.  Finally (and I mention this in my response below), I love how McMurtry balances these dreadful scenarios with Roscoe!  What a hoot!  This was a great section!

Here are Leah's, Amy's and my thoughts below -- Amy wrote this week's questions:

1) Gus starts off this section, saying, "Here is where we all find out if we was meant to be cowboys." when Deets predicts a storm. Newt later observes that the only person who hadn't performed well in the storm was Sean. Did you predict at this point Sean would be the first casualty? How did his death impact you? What did you think of the way Gus and Call handled it?

Leah: I knew that they wouldn't make it through the whole journey without a death, of course there would be deaths, but two days in, and in such a violent manner, this was pretty sad to take in. Sean was so young and I think, I am not sure who it was Call or Gus, that said that is was just poor luck because it could have been anyone, it didn't matter how well trained you were. I think it would be hard to have to accept a death like that on the trail because it would really bring your morality into focus. It's especially poignant since Sean didn't seem to want to be in America in the first place.

Amy: I also thought it was really tragic! I thought the singing at the grave was kind of beautiful and I cried a little bit. It sounded like such a horrible way to go and the whole thing happened so quickly.

Melissa: This one shocked me! The visual of him being swarmed by water moccasins was awful! But the writing was so effective, I re-read it so I could immerse in the tragedy. I know the brothers played a minor role in this whole drama, but I loved the nuance their characters added – true “Irish Tenors.” I feel really sorry for the remaining one. I thought Gus and Call handled the best way they could: acknowledged it, remembered him, had a proper burial, and moved on.

2) Elmira and Loraine are both traveling on their own in the company of men. What do you think about the differences in their two situations? Which situation would your rather be in?

Leah: I love this question! Personally I would rather be on Lorrie's situation because I think the men she is travelling with probably care about her more as a person (yes she is a whore but at least they know her and like her!). They don't want anything bad to happen to her. If she gets fedup with Jake, you know Gus will take care of her and she has a bunch of money. Whereas Elmira, she's on that boat with a bunch of men she doesn't know. No thank you! Dreaming up some story, chasing after some man that left her.

Amy: Elmira's situation sounds terrible to me as well, I thought that part about how the men thought she belonged to them and in their eyes she didn't belong to herself to speak volumes. I also think Lorrie's in a much better situation!

Melissa: Well one thing Lorena has going for her – she is on land – she’s got the freedom (barely) to leave on a horse if she wants too. Elmira is stuck on a boat – nowhere to move -- so she doesn’t have a lot of options. And it has to smell (even worse than a bunch of dirty cowboys!). Honestly, both women’s situations stink (literally and figuratively). I still think I would rather be with Xavier on my way to San Francisco. So sad that women had so few choices.

3) Roscoe is a bit pathetic out looking for July on his own when he runs across Louisa Brooks who proposes marriage in no time. What did you think of this unique character of Louisa and Roscoe's reaction to her?

Leah: FUNNIEST CHAPTER EVER! Louisa was a hoot. She was in charge of her own life. She clearly was a great farmer who doesn't need a man but wants a man. This is in stark contrast to the previous women we've met so far. Whereas, Roscoe doesn't know what's hit him! As far as I can gather he's barely interacted with women before, which I think Louisa might even like about him. As far as she's concerned he can come back and be her companion. Love it!

Amy: I laughed SO MUCH during this chapter! Roscoe was so so so funny, when she proposed and laid out all the logic of it and he's like, well I don't want to. And then he starts to come around...ha!

Melissa: Seriously – laugh out loud funny! I love how McMurtry is weaving these vignettes throughout the book: This serious/dangerous cattle drive, juxtaposed with this comical, clown-like journey of Roscoe’s. A perfect example of “comic relief.” Leah, I must say, I’m almost jealous that you know what is around the corner! I secretly want to ask you, “so, what happens next??!!”

What are your thoughts from this week's reading?  And leave a link!

Wild West Wednesdays! Lonesome Dove Chapters 21-30

Welcome to week 3 of our Lonesome Dove Read Along!

Admittedly, after week 2, I was not feeling very motivated about this book -- but I really enjoyed our week 3 chapters!  Finally some action!  The Hat Creek Cattle gang gets on the road, while Lorena and Jake make their parallel trek.  We get a glimpse of what damage Jake left behind in Arkansas and the folks there seem unwilling to forget that he left them without a dentist.

I was in charge of discussion questions this week -- check out Amy's, Leah's and my thoughts below: 

1) Xavier issues an impassioned plea to Lorena to stay in Lonesome Dove and marry him. Do you think his motives are sincere? Or is he doing it for business? Also, here is another chance for Lorena to bypass the cattle drive and go directly to San Francisco (which we are to believe is her goal), but yet she turns it down. Why?

Amy: I think Xavier was sincere based on Gus's observation that some men fall hard and have a hard time getting over it. Yet part of me thinks, why not just marry her before she threatened to leave? I think Lorena also wants to prove it to herself that she can do this and do it on her own. Sure she's somewhat dependent on Jake, but she's coming to realize how much more dependent he is on her and that he's kind of worthless.

Leah: Yeah part of me wonders why Xavier waited so long to ask her to marry him if his motives are 'sincere'. I guess maybe it's that old adage of not knowing what you've got till it's gone but it makes me think he liked have her around and it was good for business and all and now that she's going to uproot herself and leave this is just kind of a last ditch effort. As for Lorena not taking his money, I am inclined to agree with Amy. I feel like Lorena wants to go on this journey and see what's out there in the world and I don't think she's that nervous about this group of men for some reason. I also sense that she didn't quite believe Xavier when he told her that she could just get to SF by boat. However, Jake is her ticket out of town. She's made already made her bargain with the devil so to speak as to that being her way out so she was going to keep it.

Melissa: As sappy as this sounds, I thought this was one of the most emotional passages I’ve read in a long time! The writing gave me hope for the rest of the book! I could honestly feel Xavier’s anguish at the thought of Lorena leaving. But, I couldn’t quite tell if it was a selfish anguish, a lusting anguish, or a true love anguish. My first reaction was, “of course he wants to marry her, he is losing his cash cow!” But later on in our reading, he revisits his thoughts with Gus (or was it Call?), and I really think he loves her. But like what you all said, why didn’t he proclaim his feelings earlier? I still can’t figure Lorena out, or her intentions…I would have bypassed the cattle drive, taken Xavier’s money and his offer and headed to San Francisco. Obviously Jake has something to do with it, but I wonder if she has second thoughts now that she’s stuck caring for his infected finger, his drunken stupor and the impending storm! Can you imagine how smelly they must be at this point?! Blech!

2) We are shown Newt’s inexperience and youth when he asks, “how far is it, up north?” To which Captain Call responds, “it’s a ways farther than you’ve been.” But the reader is privy to Call’s internal thoughts that reflect more directly on Gus:

It struck Call that they should have educated the boy a little better. He seemed to think north was a place, not just a direction. It was another of Gus’s failings – he considered himself a great educator, but yet he rarely told anyone anything they needed to know.

What do think about Call’s assessment of Gus? Any thoughts?

Amy: That's pretty interesting and I think it's a great demonstration of the difference between these two men. Gus is all ideals and high thought and Call is about practicality and knowing what you need to survive. Call seems to have little patience for anything that's not strictly needed whereas Gus DOES have a fondness for classical education, like including Latin on the sign.

Leah: I also think that the reality of the situation is the fact that life out in the West at the time was they just plain didn't have time to teach Newt as much as Gus probably would have liked to. Sure, Gus was sitting around drinking all day but that was because he'd paid his dues as a Ranger so to speak. Newt was still a young man and needed to learn how to be a cowboy which would be far more useful in life than Latin and, well maybe not geography but you get my drift.

Melissa: When I read this statement, I knew I wanted this to be a question – as it struck me as profound – but I wasn’t sure how to answer it myself! I love Gus’s “pontification” on life and his lofty thoughts and ideas, but, in their situation, what good does it do out in the Texas desert? And obviously, as important as he thinks his “education” is, he isn’t doing very well at passing it along to those who need it most.

3) We finally see the flip side of Jake’s story– Ft. Smith, Arkansas – what do you think of July? Roscoe? Elmira? Peach?

Amy: I had no idea we were going to get this glimpse! I feel sorry for July to be honest, thought Roscoe was kind of funny, Elmira a bit annoying--though she gives us a glimpse of a different kind of woman, and Peach...well no clear feelings about her yet!

Leah: I loved this part of the book - another angle! I too felt bad for poor heartsick July! Is there going to be a fun run in with our fair travelers to the North and July will really shoot 'em up? Roscoe was a crack up. Elmira made me sad. She really had no control over her life. She thought she could make herself better by being married but really it didn't do much for her. Loneliness was rampant no matter what kind of life she led. Peach was the town gossip clearly. Every town has to have one of those!

Melissa: Oh Leah, me too! When I flipped to Part II and started reading I thought, “Ok, I can keep going with this!” Poor, pathetic July, how did he get himself in this mess? And Elmira – to bring this full circle, I now know why Lorena didn’t go with Xavier, because she would have ended up just like Elmira. I can’t wait to see if Roscoe finds July and Joe – and I know Elmira will turn up at some point, and I can’t wait to see how McMurtry takes these story lines and works them all together. And it’s like a comedy sketch…can you imagine losing someone you’re are supposed to be keeping an eye on? On a personal note, trust me, next time I’m driving thru Ft. Smith – I’m stopping in the historic district and taking a look around!

Below, from the National Park Service, a picture of the Old U.S. Courthouse and Jail in Fort Smith, circa the late 1800's -- possibly where Roscoe did his whittling? Hmmm....



What are your thoughts from week 3?  Leave your comments and website so I can link you in future discussions.

For other readers' thoughts, check out:
Lilly's Reading Extravaganza

Wild West Wednesdays! Lonesome Dove Chapters 11-20

Welcome to week 2 of our Lonesome Dove read along.  Amy of My Friend Amy and Leah of Amused by Books are my cowpokes in this endeavor.

So my individual thoughts on week 2:  As basic as this sounds -- I like it.  Not loving it. Still find it very humorous, but also becoming tedious, like I want to tell Mr. McMurtry, "can we get one with this already??!!"  But I'm trying to be patient and see how it plays out.  

Leah was in charge of this week's discussion, so here it goes:

1. Obviously Texas and Mexico border each other and we've learned that Call and Gus used to be Rangers. Their job was to control the borders. Any Mexican caught stealing horses or cattle on the Texas side was hung or shot, yet they are going down to Mexico to gather their horses and cattle for the drive to Mexico. Newt observes this juxtaposition and so do we? Thoughts?

Leah: I thought it was interesting that this lawlessness was not tolerated in Texas by Call and Gus but they deemed it perfectly acceptable to do the very same thing across the border. Granted, they were getting back some horses and cattle stolen from someone else but they were also getting back others that they didn't know where they came from. How can they deem this so unlawful, yet have no qualms doing it themselves? Granted, I don't know the history behind it and I am not trying to pick some sort of chicken and egg battle between Mexico and Texas because there is way more history there than I can even delve into but I just thought it was interesting that this was touched on in this book.

Melissa: Honestly, I didn’t have any thoughts about this one way or the other while I read it. But, in modern context, it doesn’t seem much different than our current border relations. We aren’t “hanging” what are now “illegal immigrants” as opposed to “Mexicans,” but we want their services (in the book’s case, horses or Bol, the cook) as long as they serve our needs, but are willing to run them back across the border or hang them if they don’t serve our purpose. Not to mention, I think a border “wall” would really cramp Call & Gus’s horse thieving activities!

Amy:  I think it's the interesting two sides of the same coin that always goes with lawmen and criminals, it's all just a bit more obvious here.  Also, protecting one's own property can be a role in one place but they don't have the responsibility or obligation elsewhere.  It's what makes it the Wild West right? :)

2. Call has to go gather men to work on his cattle drive. We get a glimpse into home life in Texas. Some families are eager to give up their eldest sons to have less mouths to feed and some are doing much better. What did you think of these glimpses?

Leah: There were two homes that we saw, one where the father had died and the family didn't even have shoes and only a dirt floor and the other where they had a ton of children yet bountiful amounts of food. I found these glimpses to be fascinating that in the same land some families could be so successful and others could struggle so hard to survive. Is it luck, sheer force of will, or something else that allowed people to prosper?

Melissa: What I found poignant about these scenes, is once again, when there the male figure in the house is absent (in this case, dead), the woman is stereotypically destitute. But at the other household, even though the man is in the home, he is a drunk (not much better than alive!), but this woman is thriving. What is it about a man, in literature, that determines the viability of a woman/family? The first family (sorry, I can’t remember their name and my book is in the car!), she has a brood of kids – and two grown boys that she is willing to send off with Gus and Call – couldn’t they be filling the proverbial shoes the missing father? But it also speaks to life on the frontier where families are miles and miles apart; land and it’s productive value is vastly different; and the inability to look after “one another’s neighbor.”

Amy:  Fascinating observations!  I didn't really think much about these scenes to be honest as I was reading, but I was amused by the line when the mom looked at the boys as if wondering why she'd born them.  I also thought it curious they'd be eager to be rid of the older boys when it seemed they could do more work.  But I guess by going off on the drive they are.

3. Lorena will do anything to get out of Lonesome Dove, even if means being the sole woman on the cattle drive to Montana. Would you have done the same? Thoughts on what might be up ahead for Lorena?

Leah: Bold move, Lorena that's what first comes to mind. I mean, no matter where and when, a bunch of dudes out in the middle of nowhere, things get rough and smelly. You overhear things you should never here, I don't care if you are a whore but yeah, I don't blame her. She's never seen Montana but trust me, I'd rather live there than the way Lonesome Dove sounds. Besides, she's stuck regardless so at least this way, she's doing something about her situation. You gotta respect that.

Melissa: Before I get to Lorena, I must say, all this “guy talk” of “pokes, roots, grunts” whatever adjectives McMurtry uses to designate sex it getting tiring. It’s what we call in our family “potty talk.” I’m just weary of it. At one point, he used the word “poke” 3-4 times on a page! Ugh! And the scene where Jake “pokes” Lorena after cutting horses, and the description of how dirty he is and the dirt/sand in the sheets – it grossed me out so I wanted to take a shower!

Now, to the question: I would do whatever it took to get out of the situation I was in. Period. And traveling with this group, isn’t that far off from the tales of Gen. Hooker’s band of women that followed him and his troops during the Civil War. I’m just wondering if she has to give services to all of her customers? Jake? Gus? Dish?

A final thought…although I am liking the book, it is much more of a chore to read than I thought it would be. I thought I would be swept away with the “grandeur” of it, but McMurtry, to this point, seems to write the same scenes over and over again. I used the word weary earlier, and that’s how I feel, weary.

Amy: I think Lorena is ready for her situation to change. She's been courageous throughout. She was already the only whore in town so she's a bit used to it. I find the sections about Lorena the most interesting, perhaps because she is the lone female character, and the way men feel about her interesting as well, like when Jake compares her to a mountain.

I'm actually enjoying the book much more than I thought I would. Admittedly, I was surprised we read another ten chapters with little action but it's much more amusing that I thought it would be and I'm hoping this careful characterization (such as that long section on how Deets likes the moon) will pay off.

Any thoughts you would like to share?